No va Cain
Jun 8th, 2007 by Fenevad
In one of the more bizarre posts I’ve yet seen from brother Ixtlilxochitl, it was claimed that Cain is Bigfoot. I remember hearing this same story as a teenager from a seminary teacher (the one who told me that a U.S. space probe had been sucked into a black hole and the Ten Tribes lived under the polar ice cap…). She also claimed that Joseph Smith had met Cain/Bigfoot one day (although Cain was on a horse, which sort of doesn’t fit the whole Bigfoot thing). Has anyone else heard this equation of Cain with Bigfoot or heard the story of Joseph Smith meeting Cain (or any similar stories)? Why might this story, which has so many obvious doctrinal problems, get passed around? Are there any other uniquely Mormon explanations for creatures like Bigfoot that you’ve heard?
Fenevad,
The story I heard is that David W. Patten, one of the original 12 apostles in the 1830’s, met up with Cain/Bigfoot while Patten was on a mission. Patten was on horseback when he met up with Cain walking along. Cain apparently was almost equal in height to Patten or the horse, I forget which, and was covered in thick dark hair.
Anyway, Patten asked him what he was doing and Cain told him that he was cursed to wander the earth and live forever and that his mission was to destroy the souls of men. Upon hearing those words, Patten used the priesthood to quickly cast him out of his presence.
That’s the story as far as I remember. I thought it interesting, but never quite got how it was one of the most wicked of all people would survive the flood sent to destroy the wicked in Noah’s time.
Fenevad - I actually wrote a paper on this. It’ll be published in the Journal of Mormon History this fall. We have the Patten story from a letter that Abraham Smoot wrote to Joseph F. Smith, who had apparently heard of Patten’s encounter from another source and sought more information on it. Patten was living with Smoot’s family when he supposedly saw Cain; Smoot was a young man.
Cain was not actually on a horse when Patten encountered him; he was, however, tall enough to look Patten in the eye while Patten was on his horse. And he was covered in hair.
There are plenty of other stories along these lines; the best documented involves E. Wesley Smith, president of the Hawaii mission when the Laie temple was dedicated, who supposedly saw Cain the night before the dedication. He sought help from his brother, Joseph Fielding Smith, and was sent to - Smoot’s letter. It’s also worth noting that GA’s as late as Spencer Kimball seem to have believed it - Smoot’s letter is reprinted in Miracle of Forgiveness. Page 127, if I recall correctly.
J_T and Matt,
Thanks for the information on the origins. I was unaware of the source of the story, but it’s amazing how well the old telephone metaphor for folk transmission works here: most of the elements of the original story (horses, hairy person, a church leader, roaming in the wilds) are there, but they were distorted and altered by the time I heard the story. I wonder how many other variations of the story they are and when the equation of Cain with Bigfoot took place.
I find the idea that Cain, the original Son of Perdition in our theology, would degenerate into something half human/half animal is notable. I am unsure of the timing of this story, but did it occur when Brigham Young was teaching that the Sons of Perdition would fall prey to eternal retrogression?
One other notable thing in this story is that it puts evil in an easily recognizable form. If Cain is really running around in Bigfootesque guise, it would make it awfully hard from him to accomplish his professed goal to “destroy the souls of men”: it would seem a more subtle approach might be in order. But what it does do is depict Cain in a form similar to old European stories about Satan/devils, who appeared in physical form and could be tricked or controlled. Perhaps one message of the story is that evil is big and scary, but ultimately controllable.
I wonder what other variants of this story have entered Mormon folklore and what their messages are.
I first heard it from other missionaries in the MTC. It was the David W. Patten story, where he was on his horse and eye-to-eye with the standing Bigfoot. The way I remember it, in the discussion after the story, one of the missionaries suggested that this is another example of Satan copying the ways of God. His logic was that God preserved the lives of John the Baptist and the Three Nephites to work as agents for Him until the end of time — Satan did the same thing with Cain (thus, the ability to live through the flood).
I also seem to remember a story about a noted church leader — I think his name was Childs — sitting next to Cain on an airplane and starting up a discussion about the Book of Mormon only to have Cain tell him that his mission in life was to destroy the souls of men, especially the younger generation…. hang on, no, wait… that was Mick Jagger. My bad.
If Cain survived the flood, wouldn’t it make more sense for him to be the Loch Ness Monster?
Thanks Costanza. That reminds me of the story that I used to hear that the Loch Ness Monster was a surviving dinosaur, thus proving that the earth is not as old as scientists say it is. Uniquely Mormon? No. But I have heard variations on that one as a way to argue for young earth creationism among Church members back when that seemed to be a hot issue. I wonder if that story is still current among Mormons, or just among certain groups of evangelicals, like these guys.
Well, if the flood was more localized like many are now saying, perhaps Cain could have survived wandering to another part of the world. Not that I believe that one way or the other about Cain or the flood.
Now really Costanza (#5) — that is just silly. everyone knows that Nessie is there to guard the secret underwater entrance to the realm of the Lost Tribes — no one goes in — no one comes out (except for John the Beloved, of course).
i think that you are all off your rockers!!
cain is the beast in revelations who ascends from the bottomless pit,that’s where he was during the flood
And all this time I thought that Gandalf fought that beast while falling through the pit and eventually smote his ruin on the mountainside (although with the flooding of Isengard, the pit was the first to be flushed out and made clean, but maybe that’s because it wasn’t of the bottomless variety).
it is amazing to me that we in the 21st century we still know very little if anything at all about one of the most negative persons in history.i believe all things will come to our enlightenment when we are ready.
i also believe that the story of cain, and the 13th Emom who will come out of the cave to lead Islam to Victory over Israel is also the beast to be revealed in Revelations. I believe we have not yet put all of the pieces together yet. but by the time we think we know how the story goes it will be too late and most of us will have been destroyed. because as in the days of Noah we are all caught up unto our own vain imaginations. it’s unfortunate really, because we don’t know who we really are. all of the events we are now witnessing on the world stage are part of the great plan to force us all to choose as we once did before we came here. It is the second part of our test. please know that God is over all things and will
take back what is rightfully his in his own do time. meanwhile Cain
who has a physical body is leading the armies of all those that chose not to come to earth and gain bodies and learn faith. which is
the greatest of all, for by this faith we move mountains and command the elements which would give us Godlike status, isn’t that what our Father wants for all? to give us all he has?
Let it be! for all things are being directed by him who Loves us all.
And it is amazing to me that some vain imaginations are regarded as vain imaginiations while others are solemnized as eschatological history.
Glen, i like your since of humor about all this. in todays world of hysteria we live in one must remember to keep it light.