Youth were Generals in the War in Heaven
Apr 26th, 2007 by Stephen Erastus Knudsen III
On my mission, before I became AP, my first companion shared his patriarchal blessing with me. It was laying on his desk next to his scriptures during morning study. Instead of waking him, I decided I should just read it. What it said changed my life. It said that the youth of the church were generals in the war in heaven. I don’t think it meant him specifically, because he really did not have that many baptisms. But I remember how it made me feel to know of assurity what I had always suspected to be true.
I have since heard this confirmed in countless accounts from sources no less respected than President Packer and President Monson. Some people have tried to tell me that this is not true — that it is just “Mormon Folklore.” Well, maybe it is not true for you, but I know in my heart that this was not just a fluke experience. I was meant to read that blessing. And maybe you do not have enough faith to know it for yourself, but I have enough faith for both of us. If you are weak and in need of nourishment, come to me for sustenance. I promise, I will not let you down.
I humbly pray that each of you will arouse your faculties to a remembrance of that glorious pre-millennial day when we stood as generals vanquishing the wicked before us. Those vanquished spirits do not rest in their war against the righteous. Neither, then, shall we! Neither, then, shall we.
Another infuriatingly arrogant post that I hope is a parody of the kind of Mormon that we don’t want to be.
One of the links in the blogroll explicitly repudiates this long myth.
He wasn’t a general in the war in heaven, “because he really did not have that many baptisms?” Give me a break. There are members of the Quorum of the Twelve who did not even go on missions and another who only baptized one or two the whole time he was there.
Adam,
You may think of me what you wish. I am fully aware that some people claim this to be “Mormon Folklore” — it’s why I put it here in the first place. But this came from my companion’s patriarchal blessing, and I don’t think an inspired patriarch would spread folklore if it wasn’t true. It really comes down to who you are going to believe, someone who wants to debunk a faith-affirming story that proves the Church is True? Or someone who supports the stories and the Truthfulness with such valiance and determination that he is called arrogant? I think the pharasees probably thought that Jesus was arrogant, too.
And as to your second point, my former companion is not going to become an apostle any time soon. He stayed up way past curfew every night writing letters to his girlfriend — not just on P-day in between laundry loads like he should have. And in case you are wondering, since we were commanded not to write letters on any day other than p-day, I felt it was appropriate to go the extra mile and not read any letters except on p-day as well. I think I was quite blessed for that, and much like the Lord turning the raw meat sweet to the taste for Nephi, he reduced the amount of mail for me to a precious manageable few.
Still, I thank you for the time you took to share your thoughts and perspective. I hope I was able to add at aleast a little light to your comments. I don’t intend to come across as arrogant, but sometimes the guilty take the Truth to be hard, so it doesn’t really surprise me. But thanks again. I wish you all the best.
Stephen - You are aware that Elder Packer himself has stated this is not true, yes?
See the article in the Church News, here: http://www.desnews.com/cn/view/1,1721,175001236,00.html?
On the other hand, I’m beginning to suspect you are a in fact a parody. If so, carry on.
Matt, Thank you for the link. I am very familiar with all of the words of President Packer, as he is by far and away my favorite apostle. But I already knew that he was not the Patriarch who gave my former companion his blessing, and I did not attribute this quote to he nor any other member of Quorum of the Twelve or the First Presidency.
I also do not remember the second part of that quote — the part about bowing — in my companion’s blessing. I like it. But again, he wasn’t that great of a missionary, so it doesn’t really surprise me that it wasn’t in there for him. But you must admit that if President Packer is hearing about this, it is surely coming from somewhere. People can cite it to Packer or some other erroneous source, but that doesn’t make the principal itself incorrect.
Furthermore, I notice that this statement you cited was made April 28, 2001. That was more than six years ago, so maybe by now he has changed his mind.
But I think all he is saying is that he does not believe that all will bow in our presence. This is only common sense. Clearly not everyone will bow (Generals don’t bow to each other). But all the lower ranking officers and field hands — I’m pretty sure they will be bowing. It only makes sense.
First you say in your original post:
“I have since heard this confirmed in countless accounts from sources no less respected than President Packer and President Monson.”
Then you say in your last comment:
“I am very familiar with all of the words of President Packer, as he is by far and away my favorite apostle. But I already knew that he was not the Patriarch who gave my former companion his blessing, and I did not attribute this quote to he nor any other member of Quorum of the Twelve or the First Presidency.”
Looks like you were caught in your attempt to deceive Stephen Erastus Knudsen III. Boyd K. Packer himself said in the Church News that the notion of the youth being generals in the war in heaven was false. I doubt he’d come around to accepting Folklore six years later just to make you feel better for entertaining silly ideas.
I agree with the other posters. You are a parody and a sad one at that. I personally think you were a POW in the War in Heaven and brainwashed by the 1/3. That’s why you’re so willing to accept such nonsense over sound doctrine. Go treat your “itching ears”.
That is not very Christlike, but I forgive you, j-t, and harbor no ill feelings, even if you are too ashamed to use your real name.
It is true, I have heard this Truth confirmed from many people who I trust, like my mission comapnion’s semiary teacher, who is a very righteous man and would never lie. I am still not convinced that it was the real Boyd. K Packer in the church news. Why would he deny something that supports the truthfulness of this work? Oliver Cowdry and Martin Harriss never denied that they saw angels, even when they wer inactive, and brother Packer has never gone inactive. I will wait until he reads the same blessing I did and excommunicates the Patriarch for declaring a false blessing, but I don’t think that will happen any time soon.
And I very seriously doubt that a brainwashed pre-mortal POW would be able to fool our Father in Heaven and make it into mortality, especially as one of the few blessed members of the kingdom in these latter days.
J-T,
POW in the war in heaven — brilliant. Way to take it to brother SEK — he needs a good undressing every now and then. One day he will wake up and smell the postum and realize that he is not the paragon of virtue he believes.
I believe that which encourages one to faith and reliance on the Saviour is good. Perhaps the word ‘generals’ was said by the patriarch due to it’s use in the rumored quote. That being said, I do not think the general concept is incorrect (in a manner of speaking). Certainly there were individuals that lead out in their example of faith and trust in the Father and in His plan. Individuals who lead out in faith in the Saviour and his capacity to perform the merciful atonement. In this life too there are those who lead out in faith and righteousness. Their glory will not be attained by those not so inclined. Whether or not we like the word ‘general’ and all the bowing and everything; the point is that those who are obedient will have ascendancy over those who are not. If an individual has a confirming witness by the spirit that he was one of the ‘noble and great ones’ then it makes no difference whether the original ‘generals’ thing was false or not. What matters is what God has revealed to the individual. As long as we are close to the Holy Ghost, we will learn and be warned of our own false beliefs. While some might think your statements are prideful, Stephen, I do not think that to be necessarily so.
I think the real problem with that quote is the fact that it says that a whole “generation” of people were generals in the war in heaven. I disagree with that. It is, however, possible that your companion’s patriarchal blessing did contain a similar phrase. Since you don’t have it, presumably, with you - there’s the distinct possibility that you misremembered it. In any case, I would be careful about arrogating myself to the status of a “general in the war in heaven.”
Perhaps more worrying is the fact that your companion, who you have repeatedly denigrated as “not that great of a missionary,” shared his very personal patriarchal blessing with someone who did not respect it enough to keep it between the two of you. It was his choice to share that blessing with you (if, indeed, that is what happened), but it wasn’t his choice for you to put it on the internet for anyone to see. Just because you don’t mention him by name doesn’t mean that you aren’t betraying his trust.
Of course the quote is not true. I have the letter from President Packer in my file that says this is a false statement never written by any member of the Twelve. My boss was one of the men that tracked down the original source of this and it ended up being a kid from EFY that was taking notes from a speaker that did not say it either. so every one needs to calm down and focus on true doctrine from the Brethern and the Standard Works.
I know in my heart that it’s true, too, Brother Knudsen, and don’t let the less valiant drag you down. Thank you for standing strong. That pre-millenial day is dear to my heart and I look forward to scrapbooking about it in the next life.
Dear Brother JG,
Thank you. I don’t think I am prideful either. And you nailed it right on the head — those of us who are the most obedient will absolutely have ascendancy over those who are not. Let’s face it — we’re just better. Nothing prideful about that.
Dear Brother Travis,
Well, he really wasn’t that great of a misionary. He called girls on the phone. Even non-sister-missionary ones. But I understand what you are saying, and I accept your reprimand. Perhaps I was being overzealous, like Zeniff. But it’s not like I shared the really sacred parts of his blessing, like how he was preordained to be one of the two prophets in the last days who die in the streets of Jerusalem and resurect on the third day, or how he has been chosen to bring forth the records of the lost tribes, or that he is from the tribe of Levi — and I would never reveal that his name is Craig Waite and that he is getting a PhD in History at Indiana University or that, as you seem to have guessed, he didn’t actually “share” his blessing with me as much as he didn’t lock the drawer in which he kept it — at least not with any really secure kind of lock. But again, thank you for the rebuke. I will take it to heart.
Dear Brother Rekap,
Of course the quote IS true and I have TWO letters from President Packer in my file (which I keep in a fire-proof safe — so there!). And as for your boss and his so-called investigation — well, MY boss is the Lord, and he doesn’t have time to track down things like this for people of little faith because he doesn’t give signs and proof until after the trial of your faith — plus, he’s too busy getting ready for that great and dreadful day. But if you really want to know for sure, just pray about this. If you do, and if your heart is trully in the right place, you will know beyond any doubt that it is true. And if you don’t get that confirmation, well then there is clearly something wrong with you. But don’t worry. If you wish, I will help you sort it out. It’s kind of what I do.
Sister Bonz,
(I can tell you are a sister from the scrapbooking reference). In the next life there will not be scrapbooks. There will only be blogs.
Stephen,
Produce the Letter!! The letterI have and fellow Bishops and Mission Presidents is signed by the President. Spreading false doctines like this weakens our youth. this is what was happening in the first chapters of Mosiah. we must teach the scriptures and there is nothing like this in there. to say that generations lead by Moses and Abraham and Joseph are less valaiant is a scary line to flirt with.
Brother rekap,
I agree — any kind of flirting is scary. Produce the letter? I could, certainly. But what good would that do? The most important things must be taken on faith. Do we demand that Joseph Smith produce the gold plates that contained those very chapters of Mosiah you refer to? No, we take it on faith that those plates existed and weren’t just made up and spread around as false doctrines of their own like many attackers of the church have claimed. But the Lord whispers truth to the hearts of the righteous, if the righteous have but ears to hear. I hear those whispers daily, and I know what I believe to be true. Has the Lord whispered to you that this is false? Or have you just misinterpreted the letter? I have heard about bishops sometimes exhibiting the weaknesses of ordinary men. but I have never actually believed that though. I thought those were just stories made up by the Adversary to destroy my faith in the Brethren. Maybe that’s what is happening here, too. I’ll ponder and pray, and then I’ll know the truth.
Ok Mister rekap, I pondered and prayed (it only took me nine minutes), and do you know what was whispered to my heart? Scripture! From the Book of Abraham (do we demand to be shown the original scrolls from which the Book of Abraham was translated??? That would prove beyond a doubt to all the doubters out there that Joseph was trully a prophet, and clearly the Lord doesn’t want THAT to happen.) You said that we must teach the scriptures and there is nothing like this in the scriptures. Well, sir, you are a fraud. No true bishop would be so unaware of scripture to make such a statement:
I was there too. And so were you (or didn’t your seminary teacher tell you?). And are you saying that generals who fought in the war in heaven are neither noble nor great? I suppose the next thing you will say is that there was no war in heaven at all, or that maybe there was but we didn’t participate in it, we just watched from the sidelines and went on with our daily life as if nothing was wrong and believed that our side was justified in fighting a war against spritual terrorism when it was really just about Celestial oil (to fuel the celestoil kingdom?). That is the sort of thing that weakens the youth of the church. That and video games. (and girls)
Stephen,
No the Lord did not whispher it the Lord yelled it by the voice of Boyd K. Packer. that quote is false!:
Dear Mission and Stake Presidents,
We continue to receive reports of the distribution of a quote attributed to me which begins, ‘The youth of the Church today were generals in the war in heaven,’ and ends with the statement that when they return to heaven ‘all in attendance will bow in your presence.’
” I did not make that statement. I do not believe that statement.
The statement, on occasion, has been attributed to others of the First Presidency and the Twelve. None of the Brethren made that statement.
President Packer has sent a letter to mission presidents requesting their help in clarifying this matter among missionaries and members, and has had posted on some Internet sites carrying the statement a notice that he did not make this declaration. ”
Signed Boyd K. Packer
LDS Church News, 28 April 2001
this is a letter with a reference the quotes have no refrence. i was working in the Church Office building next to one of the heads of corrilation (overseen by the Twelve) when President Packer issued the direction to stop this quote from circulation and in the proffession i am in we have been given the same direction from the Twelve and i can not waver from Apostolic authority. for we know the Lord speaks to the Church through his Prophets not to tinny whisperings to individual members or we would have some crazy patriarchal blessing doctrines spreading. so there’s the official letter.